It reminds me of those HP Lovecraftian stories in which the practitioners seek to call forth a mysterious god. They end up regretting their outreach, to put it mildly. Or the great short story by Thomas Ligotti named “Nethescurial” in which a religious sect realizes only too late that they are worshiping an actual demonic force. I think we Christians already have access to the one true God and that a misunderstanding of The Holy Spirit is what is holding us back. I have remarked on Kruptos’s Substack how much the Holy Spirit in a biblical (rather than a charismatic) perspective is the means by which to prevail. It is the least understood part of the Trinity but He is the comforter and the force for good in all who believe. The Crusaders were moved by the Holy Spirit to do great violence but for a holy cause, which came to them from divine inspiration rather than reaching out for an excuse to do violence as warriors
Oct 28, 2023·edited Oct 28, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
Really enjoyed this review, thanks for sharing it. I had the same issues with his work (although Disciple, you are a good writer) although you've articulated it better than I could have here. A God can't be summoned via utilitarianism cost/benefit analysis; a God can only be summoned via intrinsic, core belief. The question is how that belief comes...
...it is clear that a rigorous understanding of absolute and coherent metaphysical truth is secondary in Disciple’s thought to the production of physical outcomes he identifies as desirable (the generation of warlike men).
I think there's something to this. Ultimately, virtuous actions are what matter, not virtuous thoughts. I once knew a Byzantine Catholic priest who repeatedly stressed that right thinking comes from right action, not the other way around.
Is it though? I would argue that almost everyone knows what they need to do. Unless you happen to be a post modernist philosopher, the basic moral code of mankind is clear and unambiguous. If we wait until we understand all of the finer points, we will never get started.
I agree that we should get started on what we already agree on with other aspects of the Right. Lots of important areas of contention though - Nietzscheans and RW Christians theoretically disagree on issues like violence (for its own sake), monogamy, abortion... I say theoretically because I see a lot of Nietzscheans talking about 'beautiful' violent crusades that they never seem to actually act out (the fact that they don't commit arbitrary violence is good and natural)
Exactly! These wanna be Nietzscheans should be taken as seriously as the high school philosopher stoner who claims that the physical world doesn't really exist. I believe what people do, not what they say.
I recently stumbled upon your Substack and felt immediately engaged. Though unfamiliar with Barbaric Disciple, your article touched on a personal quandary: "To what should I apply my strength?" Channeling effort and power toward arbitrary material goals or Hollywood-generated nostalgia of historic religions has felt devoid of purpose, as these don't offer a compelling cause to which I can commit my entire being.
I may delve into your backlog for clarity, but your penultimate paragraph caught my attention. It seems to advocate first connecting with ultimate reality, from which all subsequent actions should emanate. I wish you could expand on this point. Thanks.
Orthodox Christianity and Traditional Catholics are attracting the most meanly men today. They have inspiring history and warrior saints who really existed, better than any made-up legend. And they have the Truth worth dying for.
The Environmentalists have invented their own false religion and it's horrid. They cannot create a god where there is none. Man cannot be or create a god.
I like the point that any god invented by man must be weaker than man as anything created is less than its creator. Man invents gods so that he can rule them rather than be ruled.
I am a Christian warrior, and know many more. I'm certain that this advocate of a new religion does not understand the Christian ethos. It was Christian warriors that bested Hitler and Tojo. And it will be Christian warriors that step up to clean up the Biden mess.
Oct 29, 2023·edited Oct 29, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
The problem with Christianity today are the Christians in it. Church has become a social event, keen on pop culture and the new current trends. People go to church to socialize with other people. Violence and masculinity have no place in polite social scenes, hence the perpetuation of beta culture. Cuckolds near and far, and then they procreate a whole new generation of cuckolds.
If we 'make ourselves worthy' of a God, the only one we will find will be ourselves. He's right about the suffering though, Christianity is afflcted with affluenza and we no longer persevere, no longer hope (Romans 5)
Oct 28, 2023·edited Oct 28, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
I get a bit sick of the "we need to" and "what we need is" type journalism (of which this Barbaric Disciple is an example) - whatever it's floating because its always so vacuously light on "how exactly" are "we" going to do this whatever it is that's being exhorted. Its just words...and nothing but words. However I do think (like many others) that religion is the natural state of humanity.... and Enlightenment rationalism has been a three century aberration. One whose day is now done.
Barbaric Disciple's notions of warrior religions are more grounded in popular entertainment than actual history. Warrior cultures that value personal bravery and honor above all are great at getting into wars, but terrible at actually winning them. Christian Europe's professional soldiers, interested only in fulfulling their duty, ran roughshod over them for centuries. Ask yourself: In the time that we have been growing weaker, have we been moving closer to or farther from the ideals of Biblical Christianity?
The Environmentalists have their new religion, and it's horrid. They have merely constructed a false god where there isn't one. Man cannot be or create a god.
Oct 29, 2023·edited Oct 30, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
“… This conception is one of artificial religion adopted as political technology. It is thus a practical science rather than a divine mandate.“ This is nicely phrased. This describes a phenomenon which recurs again and again. People realize that you need religion, it is foundational to human existence, public order, any state. If you do not have an actual religion you need to make up something in its place, even if you don’t call it that. The example of the French revolutionaries trying to create a Cult of Reason, which ended up being a farce which convinced no one, should be a warning to others who attempt such projects.
You've correctly identified the fundamental problem with which BD's project wrestles: we are badly in need of Faith, yet know not where to direct it. This would not have been a problem a few centuries ago, when society was united in the worship of the Christian God.
The issue is that it is by no means clear that the West can return to the faith of our fathers. Some can, perhaps, although I strongly suspect that for many the Deus Vult, Christ is King thing is LARPing. Too much doubt has been opened in the past century, not so much in the existence of God per se, but rather in the veracity of biblical scripture. The modern mind can no more accept the literal truth of biblical history than it can the literal truth of Greek myth.
Then there is the question of Revelation, of direct experience of the divine. Is this even possible anymore? The world has become so desacralized, our imaginations rendered weary and skeptical. A prophet might convert a few, but the many will always suspect a trick.
I don't the way out of this conundrum. Neither does BD. I don't think anyone does. Certainly, inventing a faith from whole cloth is not likely to provide the answer ... although on the other hand, this has been done before (Sikhism, scientology), and there are those who say that this is precisely how Judaism and Christianity got their start. So perhaps it can be done, although such an attempt would be poisoned from the start if the principle of Truth is to be given a central place, as I believe it must be.
Oct 29, 2023·edited Oct 29, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
Rebutting a naïve biblical literalism does not rebut Christianity per se. I cannot judge who may or may not be Larping when they post online about their religious beliefs. However, after about 30 years of returning to the Catholic faith and studying it and attempting to take it seriously, I am increasingly convinced that all of the resources needed to save and restore our civilization are available to us already. If anything, the failure of modernist ideology demonstrates the truth of Christianity. There’s much good in the modern project, but it’s shortcomings are evident to everyone who is willing to look. And you are absolutely right that truth must be given a central place. Even myths are only valuable to the extent that they contain a core of truth.
And, as an aside, I enjoy your writing. And going even farther a field, one of the happiest days of my life was walking home from the public library in 1976 with a Ballantine paper back of A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice borrows and spending the entire afternoon reading it, and plunging into the world of John Carter, and Dejah Thoris, and Tars Tarkus, and the twin towers of Helium and its might aerial fleet … I have never entirely returned from Barsoom.
It isn't so much a rebuttal of the kind of crude fundamentalism that has been so influential in the American south, for example. That's relatively easy and doesn't touch the core of the faith. Rather it's the universal acid of skepticism, which makes it very hard to take anything at face value, and raises questions about the literal truth of even the mundane events recounted in the bible.
Some, certainly, may find refuge within the church. I'm simply doubtful that old time Christianity is going to prove the answer to uniting or reviving the West. Too much has happened over the last centuries for us to return en masse to the naive faith of our forefathers. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong on this but I rather doubt it. More likely some new faith will rise.
Oct 29, 2023·edited Dec 18, 2023Liked by Johann Kurtz
I’m going to respectfully disagree with you on this. God‘s providence never stops. He communicates through human beings, and they do a better or worse job of articulating the message depending on time and place and circumstances and personalities. Christianity can and will find a way to communicate itself to the times we live in now. It will not be a matter of revival. If you read about the life of someone like Teresa of Avila, for example, you see that it was a reduscovery and the new articulation appropriate to her contemporary circumstances, while maintaining the truth of the faith. The great founding saints brought something new into the world that was needed in their day, Saint Benedict, Saint Francis, Saint Dominic, Saint Ignatius of Loyola, stand out as exemplars in this regard.
But, of course in my case this assertion is in large part a matter of faith, as well as the historical record, so it can only be partly convincing to those who do not possess the faith themselves.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, and before that on whether the dish is brought out to the table and served up at all. It is up to all believing and practicing Christians to do their part, including me. We have our work cut out for us.
Even just in practical terms, this strikes me as far more likely than someone coming up with a completely new religion. Then again, Mohammad was also unlikely, but he happened nonetheless.
Finding an articulation of Christianity which addresses some of the most urgent needs of the day, particularly the need for young men to have a purpose, and respect for their masculinity, should be achievable, but this does not seem to be anybody’s focus or main project at the moment.
I expect the next few years to be interesting, including in the threatening, Chinese sense of the word.
We'll see what happens. Previous revivals happened in the context of a society that was still largely Christian, with it being more or a question of doctrinal dispute or intensity of faith.
Whether Christianity can effect a revival of the masculine warrior virtues is another question. They aren't exactly symbolically prominent. Modern Christians by and large are not reassuring in this respect.
Not only that, but the monks who requested him as their abbot (which St Benedict originally denied before giving in to their request) attempted to poison him.
The problem is that truth is truth, there’s no substitute for it. You can’t just “make a new religion” like that. Old time Christianity isn’t the answer, you’re right, but it’s naive to think that’s all Christianity has ever been.
One correction I want to make to my comment is that I accepted the premise that “old time” Christianity and fundamentalism were one in the same, they aren’t, and for that reason I will instead argue that the faith of St Hildegard is in fact what we need now in our world more than ever.
I can only speak for myself, but I genuinely did experience a true conversion - a deeply held faith - after returning to the practice of my grandfather's Catholicism when I was well into my twenties, and my mind was molded in a very modern academic environment. I have hope about a grand return to the faith. Levels of religiosity have significantly ebbed and flowed throughout the last two thousand years: Christendom was not a static object that 'broke'. I have hope for you too John!
I posit that we find faith where and when we need it as a basic tool of survival when things get tough. Divine revelation in any spiritual tradition comes when the individual and/ or the society are in desperate need. In the modern secular world where we have elevated science as god, most see no need to rely on a capricious diety. When technologies fail tho, folks will turn to religion in droves because it will give a survival edge. My elders used to say that you do not really learn how to deeply pray until you have lived through alot of hard times. That has been my own experience. When you are truly desperate, you become faith, you do not have to manufacture or philosphize about it, you simply practice faith like you suck in air to breathe because you have no choice.
> Then there is the question of Revelation, of direct experience of the divine. Is this even possible anymore?
Yes, there have been many recent prophets who have experienced the divine or at least something numinous. Whether what they experienced was truly divine or whether it was demonic or something else is the pressing question.
It reminds me of those HP Lovecraftian stories in which the practitioners seek to call forth a mysterious god. They end up regretting their outreach, to put it mildly. Or the great short story by Thomas Ligotti named “Nethescurial” in which a religious sect realizes only too late that they are worshiping an actual demonic force. I think we Christians already have access to the one true God and that a misunderstanding of The Holy Spirit is what is holding us back. I have remarked on Kruptos’s Substack how much the Holy Spirit in a biblical (rather than a charismatic) perspective is the means by which to prevail. It is the least understood part of the Trinity but He is the comforter and the force for good in all who believe. The Crusaders were moved by the Holy Spirit to do great violence but for a holy cause, which came to them from divine inspiration rather than reaching out for an excuse to do violence as warriors
Really enjoyed this review, thanks for sharing it. I had the same issues with his work (although Disciple, you are a good writer) although you've articulated it better than I could have here. A God can't be summoned via utilitarianism cost/benefit analysis; a God can only be summoned via intrinsic, core belief. The question is how that belief comes...
...it is clear that a rigorous understanding of absolute and coherent metaphysical truth is secondary in Disciple’s thought to the production of physical outcomes he identifies as desirable (the generation of warlike men).
I think there's something to this. Ultimately, virtuous actions are what matter, not virtuous thoughts. I once knew a Byzantine Catholic priest who repeatedly stressed that right thinking comes from right action, not the other way around.
Virtuous action is indeed essential - but without a strong conception of Truth then it's not possible to confidently define virtuous
Is it though? I would argue that almost everyone knows what they need to do. Unless you happen to be a post modernist philosopher, the basic moral code of mankind is clear and unambiguous. If we wait until we understand all of the finer points, we will never get started.
I agree that we should get started on what we already agree on with other aspects of the Right. Lots of important areas of contention though - Nietzscheans and RW Christians theoretically disagree on issues like violence (for its own sake), monogamy, abortion... I say theoretically because I see a lot of Nietzscheans talking about 'beautiful' violent crusades that they never seem to actually act out (the fact that they don't commit arbitrary violence is good and natural)
Exactly! These wanna be Nietzscheans should be taken as seriously as the high school philosopher stoner who claims that the physical world doesn't really exist. I believe what people do, not what they say.
I recently stumbled upon your Substack and felt immediately engaged. Though unfamiliar with Barbaric Disciple, your article touched on a personal quandary: "To what should I apply my strength?" Channeling effort and power toward arbitrary material goals or Hollywood-generated nostalgia of historic religions has felt devoid of purpose, as these don't offer a compelling cause to which I can commit my entire being.
I may delve into your backlog for clarity, but your penultimate paragraph caught my attention. It seems to advocate first connecting with ultimate reality, from which all subsequent actions should emanate. I wish you could expand on this point. Thanks.
Very glad to hear it. I think a lot of my previous pieces connect with the theme that you identify, but you might start here: https://becomingnoble.substack.com/p/stand-alone
Orthodox Christianity and Traditional Catholics are attracting the most meanly men today. They have inspiring history and warrior saints who really existed, better than any made-up legend. And they have the Truth worth dying for.
The Environmentalists have invented their own false religion and it's horrid. They cannot create a god where there is none. Man cannot be or create a god.
I like the point that any god invented by man must be weaker than man as anything created is less than its creator. Man invents gods so that he can rule them rather than be ruled.
I am a Christian warrior, and know many more. I'm certain that this advocate of a new religion does not understand the Christian ethos. It was Christian warriors that bested Hitler and Tojo. And it will be Christian warriors that step up to clean up the Biden mess.
"New" warrior religion? What's wrong with the old one?
Psalm 149:6 [Let] the high [praises] of God [be] in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, [and] punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.
And then there's:
Psalm 18:34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
38 I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.
39 For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.
41 They cried, but [there was] none to save [them: even] unto the LORD, but he answered them not.
42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.
And:
Psalm 118:10 All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.
11 They compassed me about; yea, they compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
12 They compassed me about like bees; they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.
13 Thou hast thrust sore at me that I might fall: but the LORD helped me.
14 The LORD [is] my strength and song, and is become my salvation.
15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation [is] in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.
And, that's just for warm-ups. There's a ton more.
The problem with Christianity today are the Christians in it. Church has become a social event, keen on pop culture and the new current trends. People go to church to socialize with other people. Violence and masculinity have no place in polite social scenes, hence the perpetuation of beta culture. Cuckolds near and far, and then they procreate a whole new generation of cuckolds.
If we 'make ourselves worthy' of a God, the only one we will find will be ourselves. He's right about the suffering though, Christianity is afflcted with affluenza and we no longer persevere, no longer hope (Romans 5)
I get a bit sick of the "we need to" and "what we need is" type journalism (of which this Barbaric Disciple is an example) - whatever it's floating because its always so vacuously light on "how exactly" are "we" going to do this whatever it is that's being exhorted. Its just words...and nothing but words. However I do think (like many others) that religion is the natural state of humanity.... and Enlightenment rationalism has been a three century aberration. One whose day is now done.
Barbaric Disciple's notions of warrior religions are more grounded in popular entertainment than actual history. Warrior cultures that value personal bravery and honor above all are great at getting into wars, but terrible at actually winning them. Christian Europe's professional soldiers, interested only in fulfulling their duty, ran roughshod over them for centuries. Ask yourself: In the time that we have been growing weaker, have we been moving closer to or farther from the ideals of Biblical Christianity?
The Environmentalists have their new religion, and it's horrid. They have merely constructed a false god where there isn't one. Man cannot be or create a god.
“… This conception is one of artificial religion adopted as political technology. It is thus a practical science rather than a divine mandate.“ This is nicely phrased. This describes a phenomenon which recurs again and again. People realize that you need religion, it is foundational to human existence, public order, any state. If you do not have an actual religion you need to make up something in its place, even if you don’t call it that. The example of the French revolutionaries trying to create a Cult of Reason, which ended up being a farce which convinced no one, should be a warning to others who attempt such projects.
You've correctly identified the fundamental problem with which BD's project wrestles: we are badly in need of Faith, yet know not where to direct it. This would not have been a problem a few centuries ago, when society was united in the worship of the Christian God.
The issue is that it is by no means clear that the West can return to the faith of our fathers. Some can, perhaps, although I strongly suspect that for many the Deus Vult, Christ is King thing is LARPing. Too much doubt has been opened in the past century, not so much in the existence of God per se, but rather in the veracity of biblical scripture. The modern mind can no more accept the literal truth of biblical history than it can the literal truth of Greek myth.
Then there is the question of Revelation, of direct experience of the divine. Is this even possible anymore? The world has become so desacralized, our imaginations rendered weary and skeptical. A prophet might convert a few, but the many will always suspect a trick.
I don't the way out of this conundrum. Neither does BD. I don't think anyone does. Certainly, inventing a faith from whole cloth is not likely to provide the answer ... although on the other hand, this has been done before (Sikhism, scientology), and there are those who say that this is precisely how Judaism and Christianity got their start. So perhaps it can be done, although such an attempt would be poisoned from the start if the principle of Truth is to be given a central place, as I believe it must be.
Rebutting a naïve biblical literalism does not rebut Christianity per se. I cannot judge who may or may not be Larping when they post online about their religious beliefs. However, after about 30 years of returning to the Catholic faith and studying it and attempting to take it seriously, I am increasingly convinced that all of the resources needed to save and restore our civilization are available to us already. If anything, the failure of modernist ideology demonstrates the truth of Christianity. There’s much good in the modern project, but it’s shortcomings are evident to everyone who is willing to look. And you are absolutely right that truth must be given a central place. Even myths are only valuable to the extent that they contain a core of truth.
And, as an aside, I enjoy your writing. And going even farther a field, one of the happiest days of my life was walking home from the public library in 1976 with a Ballantine paper back of A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice borrows and spending the entire afternoon reading it, and plunging into the world of John Carter, and Dejah Thoris, and Tars Tarkus, and the twin towers of Helium and its might aerial fleet … I have never entirely returned from Barsoom.
It isn't so much a rebuttal of the kind of crude fundamentalism that has been so influential in the American south, for example. That's relatively easy and doesn't touch the core of the faith. Rather it's the universal acid of skepticism, which makes it very hard to take anything at face value, and raises questions about the literal truth of even the mundane events recounted in the bible.
Some, certainly, may find refuge within the church. I'm simply doubtful that old time Christianity is going to prove the answer to uniting or reviving the West. Too much has happened over the last centuries for us to return en masse to the naive faith of our forefathers. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong on this but I rather doubt it. More likely some new faith will rise.
I’m going to respectfully disagree with you on this. God‘s providence never stops. He communicates through human beings, and they do a better or worse job of articulating the message depending on time and place and circumstances and personalities. Christianity can and will find a way to communicate itself to the times we live in now. It will not be a matter of revival. If you read about the life of someone like Teresa of Avila, for example, you see that it was a reduscovery and the new articulation appropriate to her contemporary circumstances, while maintaining the truth of the faith. The great founding saints brought something new into the world that was needed in their day, Saint Benedict, Saint Francis, Saint Dominic, Saint Ignatius of Loyola, stand out as exemplars in this regard.
But, of course in my case this assertion is in large part a matter of faith, as well as the historical record, so it can only be partly convincing to those who do not possess the faith themselves.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, and before that on whether the dish is brought out to the table and served up at all. It is up to all believing and practicing Christians to do their part, including me. We have our work cut out for us.
Even just in practical terms, this strikes me as far more likely than someone coming up with a completely new religion. Then again, Mohammad was also unlikely, but he happened nonetheless.
Finding an articulation of Christianity which addresses some of the most urgent needs of the day, particularly the need for young men to have a purpose, and respect for their masculinity, should be achievable, but this does not seem to be anybody’s focus or main project at the moment.
I expect the next few years to be interesting, including in the threatening, Chinese sense of the word.
Fear God and dread nought!
We'll see what happens. Previous revivals happened in the context of a society that was still largely Christian, with it being more or a question of doctrinal dispute or intensity of faith.
Whether Christianity can effect a revival of the masculine warrior virtues is another question. They aren't exactly symbolically prominent. Modern Christians by and large are not reassuring in this respect.
The original founding was in a hostile environment. Did it once, we can do it again.
St. Benedict revived Christianity in a hostile environment. Worth reading about.
Deus vult.
Not only that, but the monks who requested him as their abbot (which St Benedict originally denied before giving in to their request) attempted to poison him.
The problem is that truth is truth, there’s no substitute for it. You can’t just “make a new religion” like that. Old time Christianity isn’t the answer, you’re right, but it’s naive to think that’s all Christianity has ever been.
I agree, fabricating a religion from whole cloth isn't the way. You can't pretend yourself into faith.
One correction I want to make to my comment is that I accepted the premise that “old time” Christianity and fundamentalism were one in the same, they aren’t, and for that reason I will instead argue that the faith of St Hildegard is in fact what we need now in our world more than ever.
I can only speak for myself, but I genuinely did experience a true conversion - a deeply held faith - after returning to the practice of my grandfather's Catholicism when I was well into my twenties, and my mind was molded in a very modern academic environment. I have hope about a grand return to the faith. Levels of religiosity have significantly ebbed and flowed throughout the last two thousand years: Christendom was not a static object that 'broke'. I have hope for you too John!
I posit that we find faith where and when we need it as a basic tool of survival when things get tough. Divine revelation in any spiritual tradition comes when the individual and/ or the society are in desperate need. In the modern secular world where we have elevated science as god, most see no need to rely on a capricious diety. When technologies fail tho, folks will turn to religion in droves because it will give a survival edge. My elders used to say that you do not really learn how to deeply pray until you have lived through alot of hard times. That has been my own experience. When you are truly desperate, you become faith, you do not have to manufacture or philosphize about it, you simply practice faith like you suck in air to breathe because you have no choice.
> Then there is the question of Revelation, of direct experience of the divine. Is this even possible anymore?
Yes, there have been many recent prophets who have experienced the divine or at least something numinous. Whether what they experienced was truly divine or whether it was demonic or something else is the pressing question.
Indeed, that's always the question.
Who do you have in mind?