As a boomer, growing up nobody older ever talked about marriage or children at all, either positively or negatively. My impression from my (excellent and caring!) family was the most important thing was to become financially self-supporting. The most useful thing would've been even talking about marrying and starting a family - like just saying this is the next big thing, the next step in your life. Saying this is the most joyful rewarding thing in life might've been helpful too. We were left to drift, mostly. I think they thought it was so obvious it didn't need saying.
I don't necessarily think "getting it out of your system" is wrong for all guys. Even the examples you used of the barstoolers KFC and Prez were both married young, did not "get it out of their system" and their marriages failed and are now 40/50!? still living a degenerate lifestyle.
In my personal life a lot (maybe most?) guys I know did the work a lot, do a lot of self care, make a lot of money, hookup with a lot of girls, drink and party a lot. Then at some point in their early 30s maybe mid 30s they woke up, "got serious with life" and are now happily married with children as they approach and pass 40.
Really the couple left single (one never married, one married young and divorced) still texting about their sexual conquests and partying in exotic locations are considered pathetic by the larger group. Being a barstool degenerate at 40 is not cool, even, dorky. Being the involved, stalwart trad-dad is the cool thing.
Obviously this is not for all guys. Examples abound but here are a quick two:
-My brother, for instance, was been boyfriend/girlfriend with his wife since they were in middle school.
-Of the 10guys in the house I lived in in college six started dating their wives in college and all are still married with children.
I think this is a preferable option but many, myself included, did need the time to mature and grow up. I am not nearly as temperamentally conservative as my brother.
The two big things about living the barstool lifestyle in your 20s and growing up and settling down in your 30s:
1. You need to be able to "absorb the blows" financially, professionally, and personally. Financially, as Johann mentions it is not a cheap lifestyle; make sure you can afford this without going into debt or getting in over your head. Professionally, you cannot let staying out late (sometimes on work nights) hold you back from performing at your job; ultimately your future earnings (career) will pay for your family. Personally, some people get addicted to sex, drugs, alcohol, the lifestyle, etc; make sure that is not you.
2. When you reach I don't know 31? 33? Whatever, it doesn't really matter, know the game is over, the bar is closed. Now it is time to "be serous" and find a wife. Time to start a family and get married.
Would Western folks in Europe, North America and elsewhere accept help in the marriage department or are they too proud and obsessed with personal autonomy?
Do let me know when you have set up a social re-education campaign to get autonomy-loving Westerners to positively embrace the duties and social obligations of marriage.
Most folks today think marriage is a prize for high-status social winners. Marriage as a capstone is the norm even on the right 😐
Orthodox (~20% of) Jews use matchmakers “shadchans” for set ups. This however requires tight knit communities. Most of the time (from my knowledge as I have plenty of connections in the orthodox world but am not and did not grow up orthodox), people will find their spouse on their own but those who don’t by certain ages (depending on religious level and the community) will then go to a shadchan if they are not soon to be married.
Of course this requires close knit communities. Often times the shadchan will set one up with someone local-ish like brooklyn to rockland county ny where they didnt necessarily grow up with or next to said person (but not always).
As a boomer, growing up nobody older ever talked about marriage or children at all, either positively or negatively. My impression from my (excellent and caring!) family was the most important thing was to become financially self-supporting. The most useful thing would've been even talking about marrying and starting a family - like just saying this is the next big thing, the next step in your life. Saying this is the most joyful rewarding thing in life might've been helpful too. We were left to drift, mostly. I think they thought it was so obvious it didn't need saying.
Awesome episode.
I don't necessarily think "getting it out of your system" is wrong for all guys. Even the examples you used of the barstoolers KFC and Prez were both married young, did not "get it out of their system" and their marriages failed and are now 40/50!? still living a degenerate lifestyle.
In my personal life a lot (maybe most?) guys I know did the work a lot, do a lot of self care, make a lot of money, hookup with a lot of girls, drink and party a lot. Then at some point in their early 30s maybe mid 30s they woke up, "got serious with life" and are now happily married with children as they approach and pass 40.
Really the couple left single (one never married, one married young and divorced) still texting about their sexual conquests and partying in exotic locations are considered pathetic by the larger group. Being a barstool degenerate at 40 is not cool, even, dorky. Being the involved, stalwart trad-dad is the cool thing.
Obviously this is not for all guys. Examples abound but here are a quick two:
-My brother, for instance, was been boyfriend/girlfriend with his wife since they were in middle school.
-Of the 10guys in the house I lived in in college six started dating their wives in college and all are still married with children.
I think this is a preferable option but many, myself included, did need the time to mature and grow up. I am not nearly as temperamentally conservative as my brother.
The two big things about living the barstool lifestyle in your 20s and growing up and settling down in your 30s:
1. You need to be able to "absorb the blows" financially, professionally, and personally. Financially, as Johann mentions it is not a cheap lifestyle; make sure you can afford this without going into debt or getting in over your head. Professionally, you cannot let staying out late (sometimes on work nights) hold you back from performing at your job; ultimately your future earnings (career) will pay for your family. Personally, some people get addicted to sex, drugs, alcohol, the lifestyle, etc; make sure that is not you.
2. When you reach I don't know 31? 33? Whatever, it doesn't really matter, know the game is over, the bar is closed. Now it is time to "be serous" and find a wife. Time to start a family and get married.
Who will do the arranging?
Would Western folks in Europe, North America and elsewhere accept help in the marriage department or are they too proud and obsessed with personal autonomy?
Mysteries abound…
Family - but crucially also (lovably) busybody friends
Do let me know when you have set up a social re-education campaign to get autonomy-loving Westerners to positively embrace the duties and social obligations of marriage.
Most folks today think marriage is a prize for high-status social winners. Marriage as a capstone is the norm even on the right 😐
Orthodox (~20% of) Jews use matchmakers “shadchans” for set ups. This however requires tight knit communities. Most of the time (from my knowledge as I have plenty of connections in the orthodox world but am not and did not grow up orthodox), people will find their spouse on their own but those who don’t by certain ages (depending on religious level and the community) will then go to a shadchan if they are not soon to be married.
Of course this requires close knit communities. Often times the shadchan will set one up with someone local-ish like brooklyn to rockland county ny where they didnt necessarily grow up with or next to said person (but not always).
Very interesting
Orthodox Jews take care of their own! 💪
Steps I have taken to build future fertility in my family and friend groups:
surround my children with higher density of large family friend groups and move when necessary.
Take vacations and surround my kids with other large families.
Talk about large families in complimentary way as aspirational
Pray out loud for my children each night to have large families
It all feeds into the idea of making generational family building a lifestyle and an end in itself
This is the way.
Awesome.